danal
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by danal on Apr 18, 2019 16:02:58 GMT
Has anyone added fuel flow to a Garmin G3X / Rotax 914 setup? Astore, if it makes any difference.
I've had fuel flow on several aircraft, and I miss it as a way to manage power settings. Maybe it is just really boring on a 914... always 6.something at cruise... still, I'd like to at least consider it.
I realize it would take a LOA from Tecnam. Just curious if anyone has done it, and with what sensor?
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Post by Cluemeister on Apr 18, 2019 16:09:01 GMT
I looked into it prior to purchasing. Garmin does offer a sensor, not sure which one, as it's been a while. At the end of the day, I just follow the fuel usage charts in the POH, and those are real close.
Now there may or may not be a guy on this forum with a 912is engine who is fanatical about his fuel flow. I am picking on him because I do not have that option on my plane.
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Post by montanapilot on Jul 8, 2019 17:09:33 GMT
As I think everybody knows, we need an LOA from Tecnam to install fuel flow transducers and, therefore, to display fuel flow and fuel remaining on the G3X. I've been working on this for about 3 months. To say that it's been major brain damage is an understatement.
I've been working through Josh at Tecnam USA. He's extremely helpful and customer-oriented, but the approval needs to come from Tecnam Italy, and therein lies the problem. They continue to ask for more and more information, and I continue to provide it, well beyond what they really need. One might think that since this is a safety-related installation, that they would actually be the ones to provide the customer with the information instead of vice versa, but I digress. This is an installation of 2 transducers - it's not attaching a rocket engine to the bottom of the fuselage, but it's being handled that way.
I think that things might move forward a lot sooner and easier if the factory knew that I'm not the only Tecnam owner who would like to have this functionality in my airplane. If anybody else is interested in this, please let me know. I will not use any names - I will simply state that "around X nummber of other Tecnam owners with 914 turbos are also interested in adding this function".
I know that the question will be "but what's the cost". This is only an estimate, but I think it's a ball park - each transducer is $300 and we need 2 of them. Installation would be about 5 hours, and at an average around the country of $100/hr., that's around $500. Even if I'm wrong on installation by half, we're probably looking at less than $2,000 for what I deem to be a very important feature for 2 reasons - safety and efficiency.
The safety factor of knowing exactly how much fuel you have remaining goes without saying. I've owned several airplanes, and I've never had one that did not have this function.
Re efficiency - as many of you might have seen on my posts, I'm running at around 7gph given where I want to be on TAS vs. fuel burn. However, there are variables that effect my "fuel remaining" calculations - altitude, how much time I spent taxiing prior to takeoff, the ability to hold an exact rpm during turbulence, etc. So, being a "fuel chicken", I plan my flights so that I'll have an hour of fuel remaining. That might sound conservative, but I haven't run out of fuel yet in the 57 years that I've been flying. However, if I knew exactly how much fuel I had left, I might decide to land somewhere that's another 50-75 miles away from my planned destination. On a longish cross country, that usually ends up cutting out at least one fuel stop.
So, let me know if you would consider installing fuel flow if I can get it approved.
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Post by Tony on Jul 8, 2019 18:06:42 GMT
I'm in and you can use my name if it helps but I have the P2008 with the 914 so it may not help with your LOA?
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Post by montanapilot on Jul 8, 2019 18:36:43 GMT
Thanks for that, Tony.
I just spoke with Josh at Tecnam re your question. It's a long story, but here's what we decided to do - somebody needs to be the guinea pig on this, and I'm fine with filling that role.
The plan would be that I would go through the process and get an LOA for my Astore. Since all other Astore owners will need to get their own LOA separately, once I've received mine we'll know what it takes to get it so the other Astore owners can simply use all of the same materials that I provide the factory with. Then, we'll need to have a mechanic who's familiar with both the Astore and the P2008 take a look at how we've installed it on the Astore, advise us as to anything that might be different on the P2008, and then come up with a sketch or, as Josh is advising, a mockup of what will be different with the P2008, and then submit it. Bottom line - I need to get my LOA first, and then we'll know what to do to deal with the other Astore owners and with the P2008 owners.
One thing I forgot in my cost estimate is that the LOA will cost each one of us $150. Josh says that if we ask the factory engineers to become involved, it can run as high as $1,000, so I clearly need to get all of the work done on this end.
Josh also mentioned a long shot - it's possible that if enough people request this LOA, the factory will issue a blanket service bulletin. Apparently, that's what was done with the Matcos.
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Post by Cluemeister on Jul 8, 2019 18:46:00 GMT
First of all, thanks for being the pioneer. Secondly, I thought we had an Australian P2008 owner with the 914 and fuel flow transducers? If so, would not the LOA for (at least the P2008) be pretty straightforward?
When I upgraded to Beringers, the LOA was very straightforward, as the factory had already offered it as an option at that point.
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Post by montanapilot on Jul 8, 2019 23:34:09 GMT
Unfortunately, although there is a fuel flow transducer installed in an Australian P2008, it isn't helping us with the LOA here in the U.S.
The fact that the Beringers were already being offered as an option is the reason that your LOA process went smoothly. My understanding is that approval for the first Beringer installation that led to the Beringers being an option went just like mine's going with the transducers.
Josh at Tecnam, who's been extremely helpful during this process, is not at all surprised with the way the factory's dealing with this, for several reasons. This has become a team effort, with lots of great guidance (as always) from Mark Gregor and with Josh doing his best to move the factory forward.
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Post by montanapilot on Jul 10, 2019 23:48:41 GMT
A couple of days ago, I posted a summary of my activities in trying to secure an LA to install a fuel flow system in my Astore, a system that measures fuel flow and accurately displays fuel remaining. I noted that the brain damage in getting this done with Tecnam (the factory, not Tecnam US) was significant and that it would be helpful if I could tell the factory that others would also like to add this functionality.
I only received one reply.
So, I just want to share something that might pique the interest of a couple of other P2008 or Astore owners to consider this option.
I’m sure that most of you get AOPA Pilot magazine. There’s an article in this month’s issue about safety options, where they recommend 3 items that they feel are important in enhancing safety. They are: an AOA indicator, Sirius or ADS-B weather, and fuel totalizers.
I’ve had fuel totalizers on every airplane I’ve owned since totalizers first became available, so I know I’m coming from a position of “you don’t really know how much you needed it until you have it”. Where I’ve found it most important regarding safety is when I’ve planned a cross country flight with an ample amount of reserve but I’ve run into headwinds much higher than forecast or I’ve had to circumnavigate weather. So, I end up wondering if I can still make my destination. With a totalizer, it’s a no-brainer. Without one, you’re making your best guess, and my guess is always not to worry about it and simply land at a closer destination – safe, but often unnecessary and way inefficient.
So, if anybody else would consider installing this equipment, please let me know. I’m going to spend the time and the money (drawings, possible mockups, etc.) anyway because I think it’s so important, but I’m going to have much more leverage with Tecnam if I can tell them that it’s not just me, but X number of Tecnam owners who would also like to add this functionality.
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Post by Cluemeister on Jul 11, 2019 16:13:18 GMT
Sorry you haven't got more people jumping in. I did look into the fuel flow senders, but never went as far as an LOA. You may have to be the pioneer taking the arrows on this one!
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Post by whitey on Jul 11, 2019 18:39:43 GMT
I’m not surprised the factory are making a big deal out of this because they have never done one before, however in Australia it’s a routine installation and definitely not a big deal As per my previous post I have just had them installed on my newly arrived 914 P2008 . Montana pilot I note you will be in Oshkosh same time as me. Mon to Thursday. I would be happy to meet up with you either in Appleton or maybe at Tecnam stand. I could get our long term Aus Tecnam dealer on the phone for you and he should be able to sort this out for you as he has great dialogue with the factory and they will have reps at the Tecnam stand. Just me me know. Happy to meet up for a coffee and chat anyway !,
And I agree with all your comments about the benefits of monitoring fuel flow. Its a must have for me.
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Post by buzz on Jul 11, 2019 19:06:27 GMT
Montana. I too will be watching with interest as this capability sounds like a nice upgrade. I have a Dynon panel so not sure if I even can do this. Just finished my annual and am now saving for replacing hoses next year on the 914 and also saving for beringers. For me fuel totalizer will have to wait. No doubt owners after you will benefit from your efforts
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Post by montanapilot on Jul 11, 2019 21:18:15 GMT
Replacing my Matcos with Beringers was a major upgrade, Buzz. Good decision.
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Post by montanapilot on Jul 11, 2019 21:38:23 GMT
Thanks for that, Whitey. I would definitely look forward to getting together and appreciate the offer. Thanks also on your offer re the Aus Tecnam dealer. That will be very helpful and I will take you up on that. I'm flying in to Appleton on Sunday because I was unable to rent a car at OSH, but I have one at Appleton. Why don't you e-mail me your cell phone number and I'll e-mail mine back and we can get in touch when we're there. My e-mail is pittspilot1@gmail.com.
Marshall Friedman, montanapilot
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Post by whitey on Jul 11, 2019 22:10:42 GMT
Will do Marshall. email on its way
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Post by Admin on Jul 11, 2019 23:22:46 GMT
Cleaned up the double post
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