Useful load P2008

[cardenal]

Hi

I'm a new member and really glad to have found this forum as am considering purchasing a P2008, lots of info. How much fuel can you carry when you have somebody on the other seat?. I live in Florida, am semi retired and fly alone 80% of the time, mostly for fun, but sometimes my wife comes along. Its hard for me to justify the cost of a 4 seat airplane but I like to have at least 2-3 hours flight time fuel when going on a x-country flight. I've had mixed info so trying to find out what the plane can and cannot do.  Any info is appreciated.


Thanks 

[ChiMike]

What type of engine is your airplane equipped with? Also, is your Aircraft new or used and how would you rate its mechanical and structural condition?

The textbook answer for a P2008 flown here in the United States is 600 kg. The same aircraft flown in other parts of the world are rated at 650 to 700kg. The manufacturer limitations expressed in the POH are more a reflection of US regulatory policy for LSA aircraft, than an actual statement of the design capabilities from the manufacturer. And, interestingly, those actual design capabilities have never been published to my knowledge by Tecnam.

Those design capabilities presumed the standard Rotax 912 engine. The power of the 914 engine is not really factored into the performance envelope, and again it would not matter because the LSA restrictions define what the Tecnam POH states.

So using the POH limitation of 600 kg, or 1320 pounds, it’s all a matter of doing the math: weight of pilot (and passenger) and luggage/flight gear is value “X”. “E” is the empty weight of the airplane from your weight and balance sheet.

(1320 - E) - X = F

“F” is the amount of fuel you can add and not exceed 1320 pounds.

F / 6 (6-the weight in pounds of one gallon of fuel) = “R”

R is the possible range which your fuel load (1 to 32 gallons or a max fuel weight of 192 lbs) will let you fly based upon the flying conditions and speed-fuel consumption rate of your airplane. And always include your 30-45 minute reserve.

I use 7.0 gph for my 914t for my calculations presuming a cruise speed of 125-130 ktas. Depending upon density altitude, weather conditions, speed/RPM setting and total gross weight at takeoff, my fuel burn ranges from 5.8 to 6.7 gph. So I round up to 7.

I plan on 4 hours of range with a 40 minute reserve at 120 knots ktas (again, being conservative, then factoring for head-tail winds) gives me a nominal range of ~450nm. While I’m usually favorable on my fuel burn projection, airtime much longer than that becomes very bladder-uncomfortable.

So I presume you are now saying that you know all of that since it is basic flight, school, calculations, etc. However it’s the only way to calculate your range between fuel stops based on a max takeoff weight of 1320 pounds.

Do others possibly, rarely, and never deliberately exceed that max 1320 pounds given their understanding of the actual design capabilities of the aircraft and what is legally allowed when the air is different over, say Italy, than the air of the U.S.?

I would not know. 😁😁

[cardenal]

Mike. The plane will most likely be late model 2020/2024 with 912 engine. As you I'm conservative on fuel burn so I'm ok with using 6 gph for calculations. Thanks

[LSA Flyer]

My P2008 with a 912ULS has a empty weight of 875 Lbs. The LSA max is 1320. Fuel is 6.26 lb/gal and max baggage weight is 44lbs. The ULS will cruise at 4.5 to 5.5 gal/hr depending on how hard you run it. The ULS with full tanks (about 29 usable) will cruise at 115 true and 120 if you want. The 914 will be quite a bit faster in climb and max speed. CG is not normally an issue so long as you don't overload the baggage area. If the plane has a chute add 37Lbs to the empty weight.

[dannyb]

In the USA under LSA rules, 1320 lbs is the weight limit. Under EASA (European countries?) there is a Service Bulletin "SB 171-CS-Ed 1 Rev 2" that addresses taking the MTOW up to 650 Kg (1430 lbs.) It's basically a simple documentation change. Under MOASIC, I wonder if this SB can be applied to the existing fleet?

Danny B.

[LSA Flyer]

I would like to see that Service Bulletin.Can you send a jpg? It does not appear in "My Tecnam" SB listing. If Tecnam has certified the airframe up to 650 Kg we should get the higher weight limit with MOASIC.

[bigmo]

Here’s a great read on the topic with more specifics on the Faye’s approved for the MTOE addition.

Also interesting to me is there’s no prohibition of flight into IMC on the EASA certificate.

www.easa.europa.eu/en/downloads/7062/en

[buzz]

Hi all. My 2008 has an empty weight of 903 with no chute. I use a 6 gal/hr for my calculations. I plan for 3 hours of flying with 1 hr for reserve.

Cardenal my mission sounds a lot like yours. Mostly me but the wife goes along sometimes. My wife is small, so it works ok.

With respect to what dannyb said about Moasic and EASA. There are two differences between the LSA conforming 2008 and the EASA conforming 2008 that I have noticed. 1. The main landing gear design is not the same. 2. The advertised empty weight of the JC model (EASA conforming) is 67 lbs heavier. Why is this? Is it because the landing gear assembly has to be beefed up to handle higher landing loads for a heavier plane? I don't know the answer. Anybody know? In the past there has been a lot of talk about whether or not we might be able to match the JC model MTOW. I wonder if it would require more than just a paperwork change.

[dannyb]

Mar 7, 2024 2:34:23 GMT LSA Flyer said:

I would like to see that Service Bulletin.Can you send a jpg? It does not appear in "My Tecnam" SB listing. If Tecnam has certified the airframe up to 650 Kg we should get the higher weight limit with MOASIC.

LSA Flyer,

If you go to "My Tecnam", the Service Bulletin Category defaults to "LSA". Select "CS-VLA" from the Category dropdown menu. It's in there.

PM me if you can't find it and I'll send an image.

DannyB

[ChiMike]

Unless something miraculous happens with mosaic, I do not see Tecnam revising the current weight limitations for current P2008’s.
The reason is simple. If they leave it the same, but Mosaic allows for new aircraft to be developed which will provide higher max gross weights, it will be financially in their interest to get customers to buy their brand new airplanes.

[dannyb]

In photos, I see P2008's with straight legs and P2008's with curved legs although the one's I see in the US seem to all have the straight legs. Maybe the curved legs are the difference (making them JC's) and allowable to get to the increased MTOW? Perhaps there is some additional structure along with the curved legs?

I wonder if the MTOW increase Service Bulletin can apply to our aircraft? If so then can't the SB alone apply as justification for increased MTOW (with the design change MOD2008/027 and/or MOD2008/045.) I can't seem to find reference to what they actually are with online searches and searching the EASA site.

My original instruction manual has performance data for 630 Kg (1386 lbs) MTOW but then limits it to 1320 if flown as an LSA. If "LSA" goes away, then shouldn't the limit be 1386 lbs per the manual?

My flight manual says that each fuel tank holds 13.7 gallons as do the placards near each filling cap. There is a SB "Corrective Action #66" which states all P2008's to have a new 15.3 gallons of useable fuel per side placard. That's a 20 lb full fuel difference! What is it "really"? When I upgrade from the Dynon Touch to the Dynon HDX I'll need to do a fuel gauge calibration. The procedure calls for first emptying the tanks and then filling up in 2-gallon increments... guess I'll figure it out then :-).

DannyB

[ChiMike]

My fuel placards state 13.1 gallons. At the time Tecnam was calling a gallon based upon a British Imperial Gallon. 26.2 imperial gallons is 32.1 U.S. gallons. Conversion rates matter!

[cardenal]

Mar 7, 2024 17:42:01 GMT ChiMike said:

Unless something miraculous happens with mosaic, I do not see Tecnam revising the current weight limitations for current P2008’s.
The reason is simple. If they leave it the same, but Mosaic allows for new aircraft to be developed which will provide higher max gross weights, it will be financially in their interest to get customers to buy their brand new airplanes.

Makes sense. I'm no lawyer but if it does happen with Mosaic wouldn't it at least set the precedent for current owners to get their planes re-certified if they wanted to?

[LSA Flyer]

Mar 7, 2024 12:39:15 GMT dannyb said:

Mar 7, 2024 2:34:23 GMT LSA Flyer said:

I would like to see that Service Bulletin.Can you send a jpg? It does not appear in "My Tecnam" SB listing. If Tecnam has certified the airframe up to 650 Kg we should get the higher weight limit with MOASIC.

LSA Flyer,

If you go to "My Tecnam", the Service Bulletin Category defaults to "LSA". Select "CS-VLA" from the Category dropdown menu. It's in there.

PM me if you can't find it and I'll send an image.

DannyB


Thanks Danny!

[dannyb]

ChiMike,

Your explanation of imperial gallons and U.S. gallons makes sense. After a quick flight today (before the weekend rain and wind) I decided to fill up. My 2012 P2008 912iS placards at the filling caps state "13,7 US gal"... so I'm still not sure. I told my Dynon I have 26-gallon tanks. At 3.8 gal/hour I have some margin :-).

Looking forward to draining the tanks and filling to check for reality :-)

DannyB