Rotax - Cold Weather Ops

[montanapilot]

I'm learning that there is almost no chance that Tecnam will approve an LOA that involves any type of pilot-controlled mechanism. The LOA that I received for the fuel flow transducers didn't involve any pilot control. So, at this point, I've decided not to go through that brain damage again. There's also another reason - I have to also tape the coolant radiator in order to keep the cabin heat at survivable levels in the Montana winter, so even if I did the baffles for the oil radiator, I'd still have to either tape the coolant radiator or apply for yet another LOA for a baffle for that radiator.

[cole505]

Hi Montana Pilot,

I just bought a New P-2008 I had to tape my oil and coolant radiators from Mankato it worked really well, but once I got back to Las Vegas they had to come off .... the temps were getting critical. I hope you get to install a similar set up like Ed did ...

He changed his and installed a push pull cable and really neat cover system.... you may have seen it already I think that’s your answer....... let us know which way you decide to go. But he was able to do it with no problems because he changed his aircraft to experimental ........

Ray & Lucy ✅😎✈️😊🇺🇸🇺🇸👍🏻

[montanapilot]

Hi, Cole. I spoke with several people about getting an LOA for this, but I find that it's highly unlikely that I'll get it. Having gone through the process once, having a result that's
"highly unlikely" is not worth the brain damage that you have to go through to secure an LOA. The difference between the LOA that I received for the transducers for the oil flow and the one that I'd have to get for the radiators(s) is that the radiator louvres would be controllable by the pilot. Since we're all a bunch of lowbrows, they don't trust that we'll adjust it appropriately and they don't want the liability. The transducers didn't involve running any control cable to the cockpit, and that was the difference.
I've had the same experience that you had many times, when you tape it for one temperature, your destination is much warmer, and you find the temp gauges moving rapidly to the right.
Just for the heck of it, I called Bristell and Remos this morning to see what they do. Bristell doesn't have any remedy, but Remos has a hinged flap with a control cable running into the cockpit, just like Ed has.
I spent some time at the Bristell booth at Oshkosh, and my perception was that the after-sale experience with them is altogether different than with Tecnam. The person with whom I spoke this morning, who was the person with whom I spoke at OSH, said that it would take about 24 hours to get an LOA from them. Whether that's true or not or just good salesmanship is another question, but you can tell by Bristell's ads and talking to their people that customer service with them is a world away from Tecnam's.
One thought - the factory has that little plate that you install onto the front of the oil radiator. It has a hole in it to let air in. My only probem with it was that I suspected that the size of the hole would be good for only a particular temperature range, and too small for some and too large for others. As you might have seen on the forum, somebody confirmed that this was the case. I'm wondering why one wouldn't drill another hole or even 2 more holes in that plate. You'd still have to add or remove tape, but it would be one heck of a lot easier to tape a hole on a plate than it would to tape a radiator. Mark would have to advise us as to whether or not we'd need to go through the LOA process for that, but it would seem to me that since this plate is easily removable, it's not the same as making a permanent installation and might not need an LOA.
Isn't it amazing that we spend around a quarter of a million dollars on an airplane and we need to use tape to control engine temps? I haven't found any use for chewing gum on my Astore, but I'm sure I will.

[montanapilot]

One correction. It's not Tecnam that doesn't trust us to be able to push and pull on levers without killing ourselves, it's the FAA. Part of the LSA rules are, other than throttle and mixture, no adjustable controls in the cockpit. At this point, my feeling is this: I felt that the fuel flow indicator was very important and worth going through that process, but although it's a pain to add and remove tape and once in a great while you find that you put on too much or too little, all in all it's not a big enough deal to go through that process again. If white hair can get whiter, mine did.

[ChrisConnor]

I'd be interested in seeing that rule about adjustable controls in print. I've never heard that before. I tried to access the ASTM standard, which I believe is F2930-16ɛ1, but it was going to cost me $50+. Not paying that just to satisfy my curiosity.

[ash31mi]

Montanapilot, good point about drilling one or more holes in the removable baffle, that idea had crossed my mind also. In my baffle, the single hole is offset to one side as if on purpose to allow additional holes depending on need. I can’t imagine it would need a LOA, for the reasons you give.

[jetcat3]

Montanapilot,

The Bristell almost doesn’t need a remedy when it’s cold with its current cowling. The cowling for the electric version of the Bristell doesn’t look much different than the Rotax version! Because of this, temps are a nightmare anytime it’s 90 F or above. I battled this for two summers in Dallas trying to instruct in SportCruiser’s and always got a kick out of calling tower holding short ready for takeoff with our propeller stopped. The Cessna drivers in the run up area next to us always gave us crazy looks! 😂 The issue is made worse for the iS equipped Bristell’s as that engine runs hotter than a standard 912 ULS. They’ve since installed two small holes by the spinner and enlarged the oil cooler area in the front but alas, coolant temperatures are still a major issue. You’ve got about 15 minutes to be in the air in the summer or you’re going to have to shut down. With the P2008 I’ve sat for 45 minutes at the same airport on a miserable summer afternoon with oil and coolant temps constant just below 200 behind a 914. All of this to say, I’d much rather add tape to the oil and radiator on cooler days than have my poor Rotax spew coolant all along the side of the fuselage while holding short. Don’t get me wrong,I love the Bristell and they definitely have great customer service here, but that cowling design should have changed substantially a while ago. Czech Sport Aircraft haven’t even made an attempt to do so. Rant over haha!

[slingpilot]

I’m on the opposite side with my Sling. It runs cold even in the summer months. I never get to the magical 212F on oil temps. I think this past summer I saw 189F a couple of times. I tape the oil and coolant radiators each with one strip of aluminum tape. It seems to,be good enough with air temps of 34F. I carefully monitor my descents, but todate, have not had any issues.

[montanapilot]

Chris-
The EAA has a specialist on LSA's. I'd suggest calling them and asking him about that reg.

slingpilot-

When I was at OSH this summer, I met with a couple of people at the Rotax exhibit. I noted that there are times that I also don't get up to 212 degrees. They told me that the temp sensor is not located in the hottest point in the system and that you don't need to get all the way to 212 on the gauges. I don't remember the exact number, but it's at least 10 degrees lower. I'd suggest calling Lockwood or Leading Edge to find out.