John
Junior Member
Posts: 74 
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Post by John on Feb 18, 2017 2:49:38 GMT
I just read the bulletin. Subject: Authorization to use Take Off Flaps, 15 degrees, at any point with the Green Airspeed Arc
That settles it. 15-degree flaps are permissible at 106KIAS. Good news. Stay tuned. They may give us a faster speed for 35-degree flaps.
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Post by MarkGregor on Feb 18, 2017 4:03:12 GMT
I apologize if the revised flap speeds were not given to you, it is very helpful to knw flaps can be applied at 100 kts!! Another good example of the forums value. Thanks Greg for Posting.
As for pattern speeds some will teach slower speeds than I but let me give an opinion and you can decide what's best for yourself. Also I am not an instructor but am comfortable in the right seat and have worked with several to get them ready for signoff by our CFI.
I will fly the pattern 100+ kts on down wind, 80-90 on base and 70 on final. The reasons are I regularly fly where its busy and I don't like to back up the traffic behind me, I see more danger in flying slow speeds especially when it is turbulent or wind is pushing you on the base leg.
I try not to do tight patterns and sharp banked turns at slow speeds. I see fatal stalls at pattern altitudes in LSAs even though I regularly hear the argument that there is no need for a stall warning in an LSA.
When I get over the numbers on final I start to slow down and am below 60 and within 10-15 feet of the runway before I start to flare and continue to bleed off speed till I have the stick nearly back in my lap when the mains touch down.
I Think there is more than one way to a successful landing and remember the above is just one persons opinion but the touchdown part has to be pretty close to what I described above, Mostly what I see is people starting the flare too high and running out of airspeed before the touchdown causing the plane to "drop" in.
Mark
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Post by MarkGregor on Feb 18, 2017 4:20:37 GMT
Another thing that makes a big difference is where your idle RPM is set. The higher the idle the more it is going to float. The Turbo and the 912Is can get away with 1500 pretty easily. Just try not to let them run at that low RPM by manually adjusting the throttle. When your landing the windmill effect will keep The RPM plenty high enough so you can pull it full back to idle. The carb 912 needs to be set a bit higher.
Mark
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Post by Glenn on Feb 18, 2017 12:05:52 GMT
From Tecnam, Capua, Italy:
Subject: Authorization to use Take Off Flaps, 15 degrees, at any point with the Green Airspeed Arc
Costruzioni Aeronautiche Tecnam S.r.l. hereby allows the use of Take Off Flaps, 15 degrees, at any point with the Green Airspeed Arc. All other flap deployments must be done as directed within the AFM for each Tecnam Light Sport Aircraft. This letter applies to all Tecnam Light Sport Aircraft registered in United States regardless of age.”
Glenn
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Post by Glenn on Feb 18, 2017 12:41:30 GMT
Mark,
I completely agree with your observations. I bet you're a pretty good teacher even if you're not a CFI.
The idea is to have the wing stop flying at the same time that you run out of altitude. But as most of us have experienced, it can be easier said than done. LOC on the runway (RLOC) happens a lot of times when the pilot starts arguing with the plane. The airplane still wants to fly and the pilot is trying to make it land. Add some wind or drift and it gets exciting. I'm always trying for a nice touchdown with the stick just about all the way back just as Mark does. I teach that the two main gear are for landing and the nose wheel is for steering. Try to touch down on the main gear only and then lower the nosewheel to the runway.
I don't usually fly into airports with fast traffic so my pattern speeds are up to me. I don't have to be nice to other traffic. Mark is obviously very familiar and capable with the Tecnam. But for new pilots or those transitioning from part 23 airplanes, my advice is to fly the speeds you want that you've practiced and don't let the guy in the control tower make you do any differently. The guy behind you can go around or he can slow down. When you're on final and you've been cleared to land...you own the runway.
Glenn
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John
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by John on Feb 18, 2017 15:38:06 GMT
Mark, I agree with your comment:
"I will fly the pattern 100+ kts on down wind, 80-90 on base and 70 on final. The reasons are I regularly fly where its busy and I don't like to back up the traffic behind me, I see more danger in flying slow speeds especially when it is turbulent or wind is pushing you on the base leg."
Glenn, I also agree with you as well:
"fly the speeds you want that you've practiced and don't let the guy in the control tower make you do any differently.
Dirty Harry said it best, "A man's got to know his limitations." I fly at both busy and laid back airports. Give me the tools to slow the aircraft down and I have fewer limitations. Having 15-degree flaps at 106KIAS in the tool box helps. 106 is quite an increase from the prior published limitation. It begs the question: At what speed can the aircraft handle 35-degree flaps?
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Post by mackattack on Feb 18, 2017 19:16:32 GMT
The flexibility to deploy 15 degrees at any green arc speed is a huge benefit for both the Astore and P2008, in my opinion. Gives the pilot a lot of control in the pattern over speed...
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Post by jetcat3 on Feb 19, 2017 3:59:21 GMT
And heck, hasn't that 106 KNOTS been bumped up to 113 now?
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Post by buzz on Feb 19, 2017 4:23:47 GMT
Drew are you saying there is a another revision that I haven't seen? This time for the upper limit of the normal operating range?
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Post by Cluemeister on Feb 19, 2017 11:38:55 GMT
Nice catch Drew! The POH has a revision section at the end with updated speed information, including stall speeds, higher Vne etc. I've attached the original 2.1.1 with 106kias top of the green arc, and the new 2.1.1 with 113kias top of the green arc. In this case, page 29 has the original information, and the page 91 has the updated information. This is for the P2008TC POH.   |
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Post by buzz on Feb 19, 2017 13:00:20 GMT
Thanks Clue that is good news.
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Post by buzz on Feb 19, 2017 17:29:27 GMT
Well it looks like I have learned a valuable lesson from the group. I need to pay more attention to the Supplement section of the AFM. They also lowered the Vso from 44 to 40 KIAS. Funny that even though my plane was manufactured after these changes they still programmed my airspeed indicator on my skyview display with the old values. Looks like I have some programming to do.
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Post by jetcat3 on Feb 19, 2017 18:15:32 GMT
Also, the Maximum flap extension speed I believe was changed from 68-71. Don't know if that was already covered!
Yeah, all of these changes were sure welcome news to us! The backup airspeed indicator had the correct V speeds on it but the G3X reflected the old values. It was fun to learn how to change the speeds in the G3X to reflect the new values! It's kinda nice to have a little extra buffer in the green tape now.
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Post by buzz on Feb 19, 2017 18:23:14 GMT
Yes I just got done checking photos of my panel and confirmed that my back up airspeed reflects the correct values. The last few months I have learned how to program my Dynon Skyview and have had to make a few corrections. I agree the changes are very welcome news.
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Post by Glenn on Feb 19, 2017 18:43:58 GMT
...It was fun to learn how to change the speeds in the G3X to reflect the new values! Speaking of programming the G3X. There are so many settings that can be changed and I've already changed a few. I'm going to backup all my data. Page 32-1 of the G3X install manual says some can be on an SD card (fuel calibration) and the rest either by writing down on paper (ugh  ) or by taking screen shots. Glenn |
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) or by taking screen shots.