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Post by Cluemeister on Jun 18, 2016 18:25:24 GMT
Anybody going to this one? I believe Flockr has been, as well as a few CT guys. Woodruff, SC. Triple Tree GA Fly in |
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Post by geobuff on Jun 23, 2016 15:32:38 GMT
Anybody going to this one? I believe Flockr has been, as well as a few CT guys. Woodruff, SC. Triple Tree GA Fly inMight be interested if others are going. About a 4 hour flight from me. Keep me posted. Roger |
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Post by geobuff on Aug 20, 2016 15:43:44 GMT
This event is getting close. Anyone thinking about going. And if so, which days?
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Post by geobuff on Sept 8, 2016 0:53:42 GMT
I am going to Triple Tree Thursday. Quite an elaborate arrival procedure. The trek is about 360 miles north of my hanger at Inverness, about a 3 hour flight. I will probably stop in KDNL for MoGas, as there is no fuel at Triple Tree. Just staying for the day. Well be back in my hanger by dark.  |
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Post by Cluemeister on Sept 8, 2016 2:15:52 GMT
Looking forward to a trip report!
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Post by geobuff on Sept 9, 2016 1:23:57 GMT
Flew up this morning. Arrived about 10:30am. There were about 100 planes, many of the owners camping for the weekend. The more significant activity will be Friday and Saturday, with Pelton and Baker attending. The parking folks said there would be several hundred of arrivals Friday. They seem to have plenty of room for parking aircraft, both for daily parking and week long camping. Really not much going on today however. Everyone just sitting around. No vendors, except a couple T-Shirt types. I guess things would get more energetic after the AOPA and EAA folks arrive. I just spend about 3 hours looking at planes, had a hot dog, and left. Sort of a non-event. Always fun looking at aircraft however. The trip up and back quite frankly, was the best part for me. I love flying. Departed about 7am this morning and arrived home about 5pm. The "Swift Fuels" guys were there, pushing their new fuel for airports. They claim they have portable self contained tanks for airports who do not want to purchase their own tanks. From what I learned, 2018 is the deadline for the government choosing the final fuel vendors, and then phasing out 100LL. There are only 2 companies competing, SWIFT and SHELL. If both meet the specs, they will both be allowed to sell aviation fuel. There will be 2 fuels, not 1 as most folks think. One will be high 100 octane for the high powered aircraft engines, and the other is what SWIFT is now currently selling, the 94 octane for low powered engines and Rotax. I was whining at them that they are not doing a good enough job of marketing, and the SWIFT fuel is VERY hard to find. Folks will not travel over 50 miles to fuel up, unless they happen to be going that way anyway. These fuels, which are the future, will be more expensive than 100LL. Sorry folks, but that is the way it is. The government has mandated certain specs and the manufacture and additives to meet those specs are expensive. Are you surprised? Nothing like Uncle Sam to help us and bring down the cost of flying........   |
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Post by Flocker on Sept 9, 2016 11:19:48 GMT
Good PIREP!
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Post by geobuff on Sept 9, 2016 13:59:08 GMT
A final comment on MoGas. The SWIFT folks were telling my "recreational fuel" is UNREGULATED. Auto fuel is REGULATED, which means if they claim 89 octane or 92 octane, it MUST have that octane. Recreational fuel, which I use, (90 octane and no ethanol) is mainly for the marine industry, because it has no ethanol, and any octane rating is only a 'suggestion'. They are not held to a standard and are not responsible if the octane rating is not met. Now that is hard to believe, but I am just repeating what the SWIFT fuel guys said. They claim to have tested recreational fuel from 50 gas stations and only 1 of the 50 had the octane values that the pump said. Ouch!
Well Tim, I guess I now understand why you trust and use Premium Auto Fuel with ethanol, rather than risking recreational fuel. I am now seriously thinking about switching.
One final comment. You know how we always say don't store fuel to long, or it will lose octane. SWIFT folks told me that is a partial 'old wives tale', in that if the container is TIGHT you will not lose octane, as the octane is in the volatiles. If you keep the volatiles from escaping, octane rating will not go down. Now most of us have vented and poorly sealed gas cans, so we may lose octane, but if you purchase the expensive tightly sealed cans, you should be OK, according to SWIFT. Now of course I did not ask them if when they tested recreational fuels for octane rating, did they make sure their containers were tightly sealed. That is one reason i do not FULLY trust boastful statements, in that we know nothing about the 'controls' used in the testing, especially when it is in their favor to report low values.
One last Octane comment: SWIFT also said that their new 100 octane fuel which will be released in 2018 will NOT lose octane in poorly sealed containers because of the "specs" required by the government. They said the octane in those specs is NOT in the volatiles and will last MUCH longer before deteriorating.
Do we really believe all this? The discussions were fascinating however, and this is one reason I consider the fly-in successful. When you learn something you did not know, that is important. Learning and understanding is one of the keys to success in life.
Cheers.
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Post by mackattack on Sept 9, 2016 15:27:46 GMT
One interesting comment here about the new unleaded Avgas and phasing out of 100LL. When I learned to fly, you could actually find 100 FULL LEAD. It was red or pink or some such color as I recall. Was still legal at that time, but then my original CFI was a dude named Icarus, he had a bad accident but that's another story ...  When we switch to the new fuel, a lot of older engines may not run on it, and a lot of aircraft will be unable to fly. So I expect a phase-out period in which both fuels will be available. The other thing is the price. In the US, at least, Avgas is usually more expensive than Jet A, but not by a whole lot... But if these new fuels as a lot more expensive, that my stimulate the move to Diesel engines ... Like Mooney is planning in its upcoming series 10 aircraft (the Continental diesel) and of course, the Diamond DA40 NG. So things could get pretty interesting in general aviation when the fuel shift comes along. I have tried several times to get my airport guy to call Swift and he is just not interested ... So for the present, I use a blend of Avgas and premium auto unleaded... Cheers! |
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Post by geobuff on Sept 9, 2016 19:16:33 GMT
Yea, every FBO I talk to is totally uninterested also. The FBO business is not booming and money is tight. Few will spend a nickel extra on anything. Can't blame them.
Like I said, I will probably switch to premium auto fuel with ethanol. At least I will try it and see if I can detect any lost in power due to the ethanol, which does not have as many BTU's per ounce as gasoline. We don't notice ethanol in our cars as we have a couple hundred horse power (or more) with plenty of power to spare.
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Post by mackattack on Sept 9, 2016 20:14:50 GMT
My mechanic told me that I might see a very small drop in power (a couple knots at cruise) if I use only premium auto gas. If I use a blend, he didn't think it would be noticeable. His bigger concern was that I might let auto gas sit in the tanks for over 30 days ... So when I do buy it, I don't fill up with it. I just buy it to fly it ...
Cheers
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Post by geobuff on Sept 10, 2016 1:03:11 GMT
Why is Autogas not suppose to sit for 30 days and 100LL can sit for 30 days?  ?? |
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Post by mackattack on Sept 11, 2016 23:03:33 GMT
Most Premium auto gas contains ethanol. If the Mogas has ethanol it can start to separate after 30 days and it then has an affinity for water. Not an issue if you blend with avgas
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Post by geobuff on Sept 12, 2016 1:53:42 GMT
Well, if you blend with 100LL, they you have lead problems in the ROTAX engines. Are you just trading one problem for another ? I really do not know the answer and am just searching. I do know when I burn 100LL, the ROTAX manual says change oil every 25 hours, but with MOGAS no ethanol, the change recommendation is 75 hours. I also know if you use 100LL, the oil canister must be removed and the lead sludge cleaned out. |
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Post by mackattack on Sept 13, 2016 16:55:15 GMT
No question that the 100LL will leave lead deposits; I use TCP or Decalin as an additive. But unless you can find ethanol-free Mogas, you're kind of stuck with either problem A or problem B. My mechanic tells me that the lead is not really a big issue and by blending the two fuels, you get less lead deposits than a pure Avgas plan. Also, another issue is how well stabilized the fuel is - 100LL will not lose octane for a long time because it's stabilized. Most auto gas is not stabilized, so can lose octane rating over time (even without the ethanol issue). I'm guessing the Swift product is stabilized like Avgas ...
In general, none of the mogas issues are particularly relevant so long as your plane doesn't sit for over a month without flying. The Avgas/100LL issues are manageable with a good mechanic who knows what to do with the engine and doesn't add a whole lot to maintenance costs (or so he tells me).
So in the end, it's up to y'all!
Cheers
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