High Mileage Astore Owner

[geobuff]

Hi everyone.  Just registered on the forum today.  I purchased the first ASTORE-N627TA (other than the demo) into the USA two years ago.  I have 300 hours on the ASTORE and have experienced it all, good and bad.  I have twin DYNON Skyview touch screens.  I can help anyone with DYNON issues, but not GARMIN.  I understand the 912_IS pretty well and can also help owners understand issues.  Rotax is reliable, but not perfect.  The ASTORE has it's own set of issues, as ALL LSA's do.  All in all, it is a fun aircraft but one has to stay on top of maintenance.  I do both local and cross country flying.  My max length cross country trips are in the 1000-1200 mile ranges.

Happy flying and I would like to hear from the other ASTORE owners.  Together we can stay on top of various aircraft and motor issues.  

At the moment, my ASTORE is at Lockwood Aviation getting the Stator replaced (per service bulletin).  This requires the engine to be pulled and will probably result in a $1000 labor bill.  Rotax is paying for the Service Bulletin parts, but they DO NOT pay labor.  This is a required service bulletin so if you take your plane in for an oil change, they are REQUIRED to ground the plane until this service bulletin has been serviced.  Beware, as it may take them a couple weeks (or so) to get the parts from Rotax. Plan ahead and request parts before taking the plane in for any service.  I think this only applies to the IS engine, but do not know for sure.

I love the IS engine.  Reminds me of my SUV.  Turn the crank and it purrs.  Love not having carb issues.

Props are another issue which will need to be discussed.  Prop pitch is VERY important.  Will discuss at a later time if there is any interest.  This applies to ALL Tecnam aircraft, not just the ASTORE.

Until later,

Roger

[Cluemeister]

Hey Roger,

Welcome to the forum. We are currently a small group, but you will find a lot of interest here. Would love to hear your prop pitch experience.

Thanks!

Greg

[mackattack]

Thanks for joining!!! I am about to pick up my Astore (914 turbo) (with Garmin G3X touch avionics) in early July from Sebring ... Another forum member just had his stator service done on his 912is ... My aircraft is N837TA and was the Tecnam demonstrator in Sebring for the last 15-18 months... it was also the one featured in the Plane & Pilot article if you saw that ...

Would love to get your take on the Astore tips/tricks/issues ... feel free to PM me or just email me at [e-mail]

Thanks and welcome to the forum!!!

[Cluemeister]

For selfish reasons I would like to hear the tips/tricks posted here on the forum.

Even a P2008 owner might be smart enough to pick up a tip or two.

[mackattack]

Sorry, it's just for those cool kids who own a plane with the wings attached where God meant them to be ... *laughing*

Of course, no problem..

[Flocker]

Welcome Roger! I'm a P2008 owner (as of last week) and I am running the iS engine. As of today, I have 15 hours on it. So far, so good. It purrs like a kitten and what's not to love about the fuel efficiency. I got lucky on the Stator Bulletin - my plane was sitting in the Tecnam hangar waiting for me to take delivery when it came out. I elected to leave it there until it was completed. (Yes, the SB only applies to the iS engine)

[Flocker]

By the way, what part of the country are you in? We're working on a Tecnam owner fly-in and will shoot for a central location if possible.

[jetcat3]

Welcome to the forum Roger! Excited to learn from all of your experiences with the iS and the Astore. My Dad and are flying a turbo P2008 by the way.

[Cluemeister]

150 hours a year is a lot of flying for an LSA. Would like to hear what your mission is.

[geobuff]

Holy Cow, what a flurry of comments. This will be a fun group.

1) I hanger at Inverness FL, about 10 minutes flying time SW of Ocala FL (20 minutes SW of Gainesville ). Tim Brown, who flies a P2008 is 3 hanger doors west of me. We fly together a lot. Tim is a very active flyer.
2) I am semi-retired (mostly retired recently) and fly at least 3 times a week, sometimes more. This is how you get 150 hours a year. I also do cross countries which build up hours fast. I also do mountain biking racing in Georgia and Florida. If it was not for that, I would be flying 6 days a week. I do not mind going long distances either for flying or biking. I mean, what else is there to do when you get old. My mission is having fun and NOT watching TV.
3) I will post some of my experiences with the ASTORE and ROTAX as I get to know the forum. Best to post things in their most appropriate place so everyone can benefit.
4) Thus far I see GregStowell with a P2008; MacAttack with an Astore 914; Flocker with a P2008 (is) andJetCar3 with a P2008. I need to learn what engine everyone has and if you have Garmin or Dynon. I am sure there are others whom I will get to know soon.
5) Mark Gregor said Jim Flock set up the website. I assume that is "Flocker" I also webmaster a website for our local flying club. It is "TheVillagesAviation.com" Thank you Jim for taking on this Forum task.
6) I am a geologist and engineer who has worked for major oil companies all my life, hence the "Geobuff" username. Hope I have not offended any of the environmental activists among us. Peace brother! Let's work together.
7) Jim, I think a get-together would be great. Perhaps everyone can chime in and tell everyone: model, engine, electronics, hanger location, etc. Perhaps all this is available already in this forum. Please educate me if it is. I am not familiar with this forum yet.
8) Sharing experiences with these Tecnam's is so important. We all get stumped and often go down wrong paths. Tecnam is not always helpful and often do not have the knowledge we expect them to have. Shannon and Mark individually are often helpful, but they do not know everything, or may not be available. As time goes on, we will generate our own expertise.
9) There are many topics I will comment on soon. Ones off the top of my head are: prop balancing, prop pitch, wheel balancing, best wheels available, Dynon AOA, ADS-B, Astore Canopy, Rotax LaneA LaneB lights, Radiator Brackets, Rotax EGT, Lean-of-Peak(eco mode), Best RPM, Tecnam warranty issues, Oxygen, AutoPilot, Fuel Transducers (and why you do not need them if you have a IS engine), and a dozen other topics. I do not consider myself an expert in anything, but have experienced and solved a lot of issues and can share my experiences which will hopefully save you a lot of pain from going down the wrong path. I think that is the most important part of this forum.
10) I have found there is little difference in flying characteristics, functionality and statistics between the P2008 and the Astore. If you are set up correctly, they both fly at exactly 118kts TAS at 5500 RPM, whether at 1000' or 10,000 feet. The only difference between 1000 and 10000 is about 20% more fuel efficient at 10000. Last month I flew from Minneapolis to northern Georgia on one tank of fuel at 10000 feet, and still had several gallons reserve when I landed. Yes, I did have very favorable winds.

Best to all,
Roger

[Cluemeister]

Let me see if I can tackle these one by one:

1. I do not have a hangar yet, my plane is due to arrive here in the US anywhere between September and November. I am keeping my eye on a hangar at KRZR in Cleveland Tennessee (just north of Chattanooga). That's where I will hangar the aircraft.
2. Your mission is terrific, especially the not watching TV part. My mission will be mostly trips of 300nm or less with my wife to the beach, and other places we want to see. Also the occasional long cross country to see family in NE. We own a small business and are not yet retired.
3. I have no experiences with Rotax or Tecnam yet. I am currently a student pilot, very close to my check ride at 34 hours. I fly a Skycatcher, and will transition to a P2008.
4. The plane I have on order is a P2008 with a 914 and Garmin G3X.
5. Flocker did indeed set up this website. He got it done in short order, very impressive.
6. No worries there. I appreciate the amazing things fuel does for us, especially flying and driving!
7. Still sorting out location and date of a get together. I believe we are spread from Texas to Florida.
8. I agree.
9. The benefit of your experience will be much appreciated. Also sharing great places to fly, eat etc.
10. I think your speed estimate is a little off. Everyone's plane flies about 5 knots faster than everyone else's.

[geobuff]

Hi Greg:

Oh, I did not know you do not have your plane yet. Wonder why they are taking so long to get your plane delivered, or did you request that late date to coincide with your Private license? A 914 will do great in the mountains and give you some extra climb. Garmin is good. I think they stopped offering Dynon (I am not sure of that) because of all the problems I had with my Dynon. It turns out my problems were actually not Dynon's fault, but Tecnam's, as they had a short in my fuse panel which was causing most of the Dynon problems. Unfortunately it took Tecnam mechanics 8 months to find the short.

I am happy to travel for a get-together. I think Chattanooga area is a great central location. Sooooo fun flying the mountains. Flown up there a few times to play around. A nice 4 hour flight from me.

Actually my speed estimate is quite accurate. As little as 2 weeks ago, Tim and I were flying wingtip-to-wingtip at 8000 feet. He has P2008/Garmin and I have Astore/Dynon. We were cruising at 118 kts. He was 5 kts slower before he got his prop pitched correctly. We now fly exactly the same speed at the same RPM. Note I said 5500 RPM, not 5200 RPM (which is suggested cruise). If your prop is pitched correctly, you can fly 118 kts in Eco Mode (I am talking iS engine here, not the 914 carburetor turbo-charged). My Astore fly's at 10,000 feet in eco-mode at 118kts on 3.9 gph. So will the P2008. Now at 2000 feet, it will burn 4.8 gph. I assume the turbo will burn 5.5+ gph, but even 5.5 is GREAT. Out of Eco-mode (lean of peak) I burn about 20% more fuel and get almost no speed benefit. As a note, both Tim and I have the Sensenich 3-blade prop, which is a little faster than the 2-blade. The 3-blade is about $3000+ more $$$, and you can buy a lot of gas for $3000. As a side note, the ROTAX red-line is 5800 RPM, and most everyone agrees 5450-5500 is a very reasonable RPM for cruise. Many say it is better for the engine than 5200 RPM. I must say I know little about the Turbo however. Perhaps the stats are a little different. Remember, I and my buddies have the 912is and I am getting to know the engine characteristics quite well.

I was been having problems recently with my #3 EGT's recently. In the warmer weather the #3 cylinder temps have been reaching 1630 degrees in Eco-Mode (low fuel to O2 ratio). The old operators manual says 1616 is the max allowed. I complained to Lockwood earlier this week. They showed me in the newest Operators manual that ROTAX changed the allowable temps to 1740 degrees. I feel much better. I had been purposely running out of Eco-Mode, which floods the cylinders with lots of fuel and cools the EGT's by 100 degrees. Now I can go back to Eco-Mode. FYI, the 912is engines run a little hotter than the carburetor engines. I would not be surprised if 1616 degrees is the EGT max for carburetor engines.

Roger

[mackattack]

Lots of great info, Roger - thanks much and keep it coming. I pick up my turbo Astore in Sebring on July 6 (my birthday!!!). Will get transition work done a bit there, but mostly on the way back as Shannon will be flying back to Houston with me. I have a hangar at Gloster Aerodrome (1XA7, http://www.glosteraerodrome.com), a really nice 3-runway grass field about 40 minutes from my house and west of Houston, out from under the Bravo. Rotax heavy maintenance A&P is on the field... So looking forward to being based there. I'm a "rusty pilot" in my late 50s returning to aviation after a long, 35-year hiatus ....

Mark and I have talked about the importance of prop balancing and pitch. My plan is to fly the plane up to Minnesota in the fall to get a few things done including fine-tuning the prop and possibly testing the Duc prop as well (the turbo comes with the Sensenich 3-blade standard). That's in addition to Beringer wheels. For the rest of the summer, I will be flying the Astore as it comes.

On the Astore canopy, I heard that they have redesigned it slightly to reduce cracks from too-forceful closings. The new ones come with different hardware and two pieces in the canopy. Mine will come with the new hardware but a single glass piece. Curious to know what your thoughts are there ... I expect we here on the forum will all benefit from your 300 hours of experience regardless of our engine type.

Geologists from the oil business are always welcome to those of us in Houston!!! ... But with your interests, you may be a little more fit than me and possibly the rest of us!!

I am considering attending the Midwest Light Sport Expo in September and some of us were considering that as a possible fly-in spot, as well as one of the Florida shows next winter.

Finally, Mark has been working on a plan to market this free forum to the other Tecnam owners in the US ... Tecnam has limitations as to how much they can actually participate on these things but certainly an active, Tecnam-focused owner forum will benefit both the owners and Tecnam, so we are hoping to expand the group of pilots here over the next month or two.

It's a small but enthusiastic group on here now, and we hope to grow pretty quickly...

Cheers!

[geobuff]

Gloster is listed as a "private" field between Brookshire and Sealy on the south side of I10. Is it open to the public. Sort of out in the boonies.

Since Greg and ? opened topics on Prop Pitch and Banancing AND a totic on Eco-Mode, I will discuss them there.

On the Astore canopy, the latches are the main problem. If the had a more substantial latch handle, we would not have to slam them to get them to close. I have complained a lot and did receive an upgrade, which is similar to the system you have on the Astore Turbo. Since I can now get the canopy closed with the new system, I have stopped complaining. I can think of a MUCH better way of getting it closed with a different type of overhead handle and longer lower handles, but no one is asking me. Ha! story of my life! At least it no longer leaks much flying through rain. I have spoken to Glovanni and his dad about this, but I assume this is a minor issue from their perspective. I do understand reality and you cannot spent $50,000 to re-engineer new latches for a dozen Astores. I may design something to make them close better.

Where is the "Midwest Expo" held?

I am glad TECNAM is not sponsoring or a part of this forum. Mark can fill us in on the Tecnam perspective if we ask. I want to be able to share without restrictions or scrutiny. I have no intentions of bashing Tecnam as I think they are as good as anyone, but we do want a forum to be able to freely share ideas to make our Tecnam flying machines and maintenance experiences better. We should not have to re-invent the wheel every time something is not as we hope

Roger.

[mackattack]

Gloster is not open to the public; a bit in the boonies but has some advantages as well. Nice, peaceful place. Hangars are at a premium here in Houston - long wait lists. My hangar at Gloster is month to month so if I decide to move it's not a big deal. I drive by 2 GA airports on the way there (KIWS and KTME) but neither had hangars available. Hooks (KDWH) did but it takes me almost as long to slog up there in traffic across town as it does to drive to Gloster. Sugarland is pretty close too but they had none open either ...

Midwest LSA Expo is located at KMVN (Mt. Vernon) in Illinois ... 9/8-10.

The canopy observations are interesting; I noted some minor issues on Mark's demo 912iS Astore with canopy latching and going *bump* closed after takeoff a couple times. I did fly it through some rain however and did not notice any leaks ...

I agree it's best that Tecnam is not on the forum officially; they have liability issues and we want to speak freely. So all is well.

Cheers!