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Post by cole505 on Aug 9, 2016 7:14:48 GMT
Hi Buzz, I hope you get Tecanm to back you up on this Issue you can ask Mark, but Tecnam has issued a bunch of LOA's were the Beringers were installed ( PROBELMS SOLVED ) these are educated engineers ..... They know exactly what's going on....... Like I said in my previous post they should be installing Beringers on all new Aircraft or a least offer it as an up grade or offer the Matcos as a lesser up grade.... The castoring nose wheel torque will not affect the brake chatter....... I was having all the above nose wheel shimmy an very bad brake chatter...... The Beringers fixed everything....... Tecnam kept telling me to keep re-checking the nose wheel torque ...... Oh an the last one an my very favorite was the best! They wanted to sell me an entire nose wheel assembly for the mear cost of $6000,00 plus $2550.00 labor an said that MIGHT correct the problem...... Rest assured GET THE BERNIGERS!!!👍🏻 just want you to know I think the P-2008 is an AMAZING airplane we just have to work out these annoying issues...... I know it's frustrating they build this beautiful aircraft an put substandard brakes on...... On the nose torque I installed an eyelet in the hanger floor an just pull the tail down a few inches that way the nose is up.... an use a fish weight scale an set the torque to 10 pounds......I check it about every ten hours works flawless......
Ray😎👍🏻🇺🇸✈️🐾
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Post by geobuff on Aug 9, 2016 21:16:40 GMT
With Beringer wheels, it's like landing on a pat of butter...... AND, I am assuming, the tires and brakes will last years, not months.
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Post by buzz on Aug 9, 2016 21:27:42 GMT
Thanks guys for all the help and info. My A@P in Ogden has been unable to find what is causing the chatter. With all the info that you guys have provided it would seem to me that it is an inherent design issue and therefore would not stand out as something that is broken, warped, or other. I have passed on to Tecnam that there appears to be a common thread of brake problems with their LSA's. I am waiting to hear back on what the next step is to fixing my problem.
Thanks again.
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Post by Flocker on Aug 10, 2016 0:32:32 GMT
On the nose torque I installed an eyelet in the hanger floor an just pull the tail down a few inches that way the nose is up.... an use a fish weight scale an set the torque to 10 pounds......I check it about every ten hours works flawless......Ray😎👍🏻🇺🇸✈️🐾 Great idea! |
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Post by buzz on Aug 14, 2016 6:23:38 GMT
Interesting thing I noticed today while looking at the P2008 sales brochure. It lists Cleveland wheels and brakes as an option.
Buzz
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Post by MarkGregor on Aug 14, 2016 19:58:35 GMT
I flew the first P2008 in this country and have since flown the majority of the 2008s that have been sold in this country. Around 1300 hours in the 2008 now.
There has been three different brake systems installed on the 2008.
The first two were Italian Marc Ingegno brand. Marc has several wheel and brake combinations available. The Marc brakes installed on the 2008 are a completely different, higher quality design than the Marc's installed on the flight design CT.
The original Marc system was lightweight, brake action was good with the floating drilled discs. The nose wheel tire size on the first 10 -15 2008s was a 4x6 and different than the 5x5 installed on the mains. The downfall of that system was short pad life. 200 hours was about the best one could expect. These also has the lower recommended tire pressures. This was later raised to help stop tires from slipping on the wheel when landing. When this happened it would pull the valve stem off the tube and cause a flat. If the higher pressures were maintained, these wheels and breaks were fine but still required frequent balancing to stay smooth after takeoff.
The next generation Marc's had good pad life but were heavier. If tire pressure got low the tire could still slip on the rim occasionally. These wheels were usually dark red anodized.
The latest 2008s have matco wheels and brakes. Actually I'm not 100% sure the wheel is matco because I have not had one apart yet. I can see the calipers are matco by looking at them. Hard to see the wheel without removing the wheel skirt.
In my experience wheel shimmy is usually caused by one of four possibilities.
1. An out of balance wheel on any or all of the three wheels. The easiest way to determine if this is the problem is just after lift off you feel a shake that gradually goes away as the tire stops turning. If it is a main wheel out of balance you can step on the brakes after liftoff and it will go away. If it does not it could still be the nose wheel. If you have a shimmy this is the first thing to rule out. Unbalanced wheels will exasperate the shimmy no matter the cause.
2. The next most common is landing on the nose wheel before the mains are on the runway. Landing fast or "flying it onto the runway" will increase the chance of this. The only way to fix this is more practice. Sometimes this will cause the front wheel fairing shake hard enough to egg out the screw mounting holes. I have seen this plenty and have done it myself. Nobody is perfect.
3. Improper tension on the nose wheel as was described in a post above will also cause shimmy. Some good suggestions in above posts on how to check this.
4.The last is a result of a previous hard landing where something was damaged or bent. Be sure to inspect everything carefully and if you suspect any possible damage and have your mechanic look at it if you have any concerns.
I believe all the factory installed brake systems on the P2008 are very adequate. If you maintain correct tire pressure, correct nose wheel side to side tension, keep the wheels balanced and don't land on the nose wheel you will be fine.
The main advantage of the Beringer wheels are they stay balanced and do not slip on the wheel rim. Well balanced tires resist shimmy. The feel of the brakes are silky smooth and powerful. The Michelin aviator tires rarely go flat and of course the wheels look very nice. Haven't met anyone who didn't think they weren't worth the cost.
The above are suggestions based on my experience. I am not an A&P. Ask a qualified mechanic or service center if something does not seem right.
Mark Gregor
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Post by MarkGregor on Aug 14, 2016 20:34:35 GMT
Buzz,
The Cleveland wheels and brakes are too heavy for our LSA rules here in the USA. I do not believe there are any 2008s with them installed here. If you want to upgrade the Beringers are a better investment in my opinion.
Can you better describe the chatter you are speaking of? Is it happening on the rollout after landing or? I personally have not experienced the chatter.
Mark
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Post by Flocker on Mar 15, 2017 14:47:16 GMT
Has anyone (non-Beringer owners  ) experienced sticky brakes? Seems like every time I make a right-hand turn followed by a left hand turn it takes full pressure on the left brake and almost full power to keeping moving forward. If I don't apply full power the plane will ultimately come to a complete stop. With no left braking the plane will pull right. Seems like the right brake is sticking. Thoughts? |
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Post by Flocker on Mar 16, 2017 0:11:50 GMT
(Thanks Tim) From the MATCO website:
Question:
What do I do if one wheel drags?
Answer:
Check to be certain that pressure is not being applied to the brake by a blocked hydraulic line by loosening the bleeder carefully. If brake fluid under pressure is expelled and the wheel now turns freely, check the hydraulic line for the block source. If this did not free the brake, most likely the brake guide tubes are bound up by the brake plate anchor. Fix this by cleaning any rust deposits off and lubricating the brake guide tubes. Check to ensure that the brake plate anchor Is not deforming when the bolts are tightened against the axle head. Some shimming may be required to ensure a flat fit.
Good thing my 200 hr is on Monday...
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Post by MarkGregor on Mar 18, 2017 18:51:06 GMT
Check to be sure your parking brake is not partially engaged.
Somtimes a foot can accidentally engage it when entering or exiting the aircraft.
Mark
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Post by Ed Midgley on Mar 19, 2017 4:34:34 GMT
I installed Matco brakes and wheels this winter. I wish I had bought the Barrenger's
Ed
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Post by Glenn on Mar 19, 2017 22:59:56 GMT
For those that have or are experiencing this problem:
1. What seems to be the source of the shimmy, brakes or wheels? Or is this still a mystery?
2. At about how many hours or landings did the first symptom appear?
3. Did it start gradually and then get worse with each landing? Or always the same?
Glenn
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Post by Glenn on Mar 20, 2017 19:58:24 GMT
Check to be sure your parking brake is not partially engaged. Somtimes a foot can accidentally engage it when entering or exiting the aircraft. Mark This is great advice from Mark. I've added " Parking Brake" to my checklist before takeoff and before landing. My first landing after leaving Sebring was from the right seat. It was a nice touch down, on speed, but an extremely short ground roll...to a full stop! My first thought was a brake malfunction then I reached over and checked the parking brake and discovered my wife's foot had moved the parking brake lever. Thank goodness the brakes had not locked the tires. The brakes had been applied but still allowed some rotation...so no tire flat spots. Now it's checked before I add power on takeoff and once again before landing right after I select final flaps. Glenn |
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Post by cole505 on Mar 21, 2017 4:08:39 GMT
I installed Matco brakes and wheels this winter. I wish I had bought the Barrenger's Ed Hi Ed, That would have been wise to put the Beringer's on from the start, you know the old saying hind sight is 20/20 what type problems are you having? I hope you get it figured out.. Ray🐾😎✈🇺🇸 |
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Post by Glenn on Mar 21, 2017 21:52:36 GMT
For those that have or are experiencing a problem:
1. What seems to be the source of the shimmy, brakes or wheels? Or is this still a mystery?
2. At about how many hours or landings did the first symptom appear?
3. Did it start gradually and then get worse with each landing? Or always the same?
Glenn
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) experienced sticky brakes? Seems like every time I make a right-hand turn followed by a left hand turn it takes full pressure on the left brake and almost full power to keeping moving forward. If I don't apply full power the plane will ultimately come to a complete stop. With no left braking the plane will pull right. Seems like the right brake is sticking. Thoughts?
